I have to agree. Jul 23, Charlie Mcallister rated it it was amazing Shelves: always-reading. Jan 13, Parminder rated it liked it. It is one of the better books by K. It truly explores the working of human mind and how it is limited by psychological time. Its chapters about insight are remarkable. Jul 24, Mona Prajapati rated it really liked it. Sep 27, James rated it really liked it Shelves: philosophy-psychology.
I waffled from stars throughout the "dialogue". Krishnamurti and Bohm discuss and debate, and at times Dialogue about cosmology, epistemology and all the existential issues therein from the perspective that humans have "taken a wrong turn at some time".
They ask questions of how do we realize the true nature of ourselves that is not in the act of becoming. There is a chasm here that they struggle to find a way to cross that is sometimes difficult to read. First I believe the book could stand at least a preface and a couple of footnotes. The stage is never set we just dive right in and some particulars were specific enough that a explanatory footnote would have been helpful.
Somehow I managed to stay with this "dialogue". I think I find it most interesting that David Bohm would some time later write an essay "On Dialogue" where I think he illustrates the difficulties of achieving mutual understanding. Unfortunately I see a lot of the difficulties of Dialogue not being achieved. Numerous assumptions appear unchecked. I don't know of course if this was out of politeness or inertia of the conversations, but there were too many times where I wanted to dive in an challenge an assumption to tease out a better understanding.
I found it somewhat disappointing that Dr. Bohm a physicist rarely employees any special scientific knowledge. There are times where he certainly illustrates western scientific thought, but with so much hinging on the elimination of time I was surprised not to hear some notion of the nature of time in the physical world. Much of modern popular cosmology seems to embrace the symmetry problems of time in the physical world.
I imagine that perhaps I have missed something, but I feel an opportunity was missed to add to the conversation. The discussion on the brain some 35 years later sound quite strange and out of place given the advances in brain science, but I think they feel more out of place being voiced by two non-experts in the field with undue confidence. There is some admission of ignorance by brain scientists of the time, but it just reads as slightly pretentious. Overall, I think this is an important book with many question to ponder long after putting it down.
Aug 07, Persephone Abbott rated it it was ok. My zumba classmate inspected the book I held between my hands. My zumba classmate is about 70 years old, I am guessing, and the zumba class is more of a salsa bump. I eyed the book suspiciously. Youtubing Krishnamurti was more interesting than reading the conversation presented in this book. An impoverished Brahmin who had been raised by a few English radica My zumba classmate inspected the book I held between my hands.
An impoverished Brahmin who had been raised by a few English radicals to be the next Messiah, and who, upon the age of Enlightenment, declared all religions to be invalid, and promptly dissolved the Theosophists. Sounded like a true hero of mankind. A hero who had developed a fine taste for English tailors.
Very spiffy. The first thing that struck me when I cracked open the book is the poverty in the scope of vocabulary coupled with the astonishing diversity of reiteration of the same words. Certainly, if we move the words around in a sentence we reach a different conclusion. In a sentence we certainly reach a different conclusion if we move the words around. Ok, maybe not always. But the ego, the ego….. What are we, as humanity, reaching for? What is our struggle and how does time fit into our notions of end gaining?
This is the principle idea of this conversation. There are many sentences that talk about the brain not the body as a whole. We all know now that the brain is a complex mass of impulses linked with the intelligence collectors of the body. However, I begin to get the feeling we are back in the Dark Ages in this book and the brain is considered a block concept. I am quite certain the man had interesting things to say, although it sounded to me as if he was a bit of a broken record.
In fact the thought crossed my mind that Iris Murdoch must have used him as a prototype for one of her books. I googled Iris Murdoch and Krishnamurti and discovered they too had conversations together.
It is all a somewhat fascinating slice of history, a wrong Messiah with a message to the planet. View 2 comments. Jul 20, Nicholas rated it it was amazing Shelves: philosophy , krishnamurti.
The 'time' in question is what the participants in this series of conversations refer to as 'psychological time', that is, the habitually created illusion of the self that is in a perpetual struggle for improvement, motivated through illusions created by desire,hope and fear. Various topics surrounding mans inability to let go of his illusory self, and relieve himself from suffering are approached from different angles.
It took me pages till the ideas started to resonate and I could relate The 'time' in question is what the participants in this series of conversations refer to as 'psychological time', that is, the habitually created illusion of the self that is in a perpetual struggle for improvement, motivated through illusions created by desire,hope and fear. It took me pages till the ideas started to resonate and I could relate to what was and had been said, or not said, as the no concept as concept approach, and the fact that thought tends to end in paradox means that what they are attempting to explain, is a state beyond the limits of normal verbal human communication, and is more zen-like but less intellectually elitist.
I found it hard going at times, but not tedious, as the texts are word for word transcripts of exploratory conversations, and as such are not edited for clarity, but left in their natural state, so the whole thing relies on the participants ability to express themselves coherently. This they do quite admirably, but there are a few redundancies, and for most of the time I got the impression Krishnamurti was directing the conversation as he was much more familiar with expressing himself and his ideas in a public arena.
Feb 03, Zeuskronos rated it it was amazing. This book can really take it out of you. A times hard to keep up but once you get rid of the clutter in your mind and make space for some powerful philosophy, magic happens! This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers.
To view it, click here. So this book has taken me a very long time to complete. I have reasons and excuses, but mostly I had a lot to think about. Of all the thinkers, philosophers, great minds, or whatever title suits your fancy, I found that Jiddu Krishnamurti causes the most reflection in me. David Bohm largely played my role, the student. Krishnamurti is a master in this scenario and, if you're like me, you are playing the student.
Ultimately, he and I would be friends. I know it would have been a pleasant exp Wow. I know it would have been a pleasant experience to have attended or be a part of his talks. This is a book that records the dialogues between David and Jiddu with other guests on occasion in the same vein as The Republic with Socrates and his audience. I do not always follow and sometimes I think I might be thinking or trying to hard when the discussion is on, but I do have plenty of "ah-ha!
I believe this book requires an open mind, or rather, an open mind would help. Some of these ideas will come across as crazy and even Krishnamurti poses the question, "Are we crazy? Is this logical? I'm an oddball myself, and if someone poses the question and I have to answer honestly I would have to fess up that I do believe parts of fantasy and science fiction are real.
They are so much the real to me because I find myself in them. It's the creativity, the characters, the story, the moral, the theme, every element of a story excites my being. It's my passion. Whether I'm reading it, writing it, thinking about it, or living it in some imaginary daydream, it all has a very real quality to me.
This is why I can accept modes of communication that require silence. This is how I can believe and have faith in what Krishnamurti says. If I'm totally honest in my own journey - I am at the wall At least I think I am.
I see everything that's being said, I've reread what was said and it all clicks, yet the wall remains. It's very tricky and one day I will outfox it, assimilate it, overcome it, who knows. I know I am not suppose to do anything. Just be still. I went off on a tangent, but the reason I mentioned my readings is because this is likely the seventh time I've come across the notion. The message that when you no longer allow your thoughts to reign supreme a transformation will take place.
I cannot speak from experience, as I said, I'm at the wall. I have people I have met and there are people that I've read who say these same things. Then you open up a bit and you can see the message written everywhere. I suppose I might be able to say it's the universal language that God uses will say this in Alchemist style.
Perhaps I'm too obsessed with my own suffering. I believe the chains that bind me to myself feel unbreakable at times. I feel like they are innumerable. After reading a book like this, I believe they are illusory, yet they still feel so very real. That's my personal crisis. That's all of our crisis. I enjoyed the book and I will likely reference its pages for years to come. Thank you Jiddu and David for recording these conversations or whoever saw to it for posterity.
There are plenty of memorable quotes, but it does much better to read the book, or listen to their talks online. I suppose I need to end with something that has a bit more flair. In order to end the endless, to see what is , we have to cease our becoming. Krishnamurti examines with characteristic objectivity. From the last time Linda and Thomas meet, at a charmless hotel in a distant city, to the moment, thirty-five years earlier, when a chance encounter on a rocky beach binds them fatefully together, this hypnotically compelling novel unfolds a tale of intense passion, drama, and suspense.
The Last Time. A mix of Hitchcockian suspense, Agatha Christie plotting, and Greek tragedy. Now in development for TV! Home The Ending Of Time. The Ending of Time. The Ending of Time by Jiddu Krishnamurti. The Sense of an Ending by Julian Barnes. Sometimes I Lie by Alice Feeney.
The Giver by Lois Lowry. To perceive 'what is' is the basis of truth. Duration: 86 minutes. Where there is division, there must be conflict.
A mind in conflict must inevitably be distorted, and therefore it cannot possibly see clearly what is truth. We need a total change, a deep revolution, psychological revolution, the inward revolution, without which you cannot possibly create a new society.
Is it possible to observe, to perceive without the observer? One of the world's most renowned physicists presents a radical new vision of science. Here the late David Bohm describes scientific theory as the myth that drives our culture, and points out the fallacy of our belief system. He also presents his alternative for addressing the world's mega-problems through engaging in a new level of "dialogue" among small groups of people.
By: David Bohm. Stripping away the known and seeing reality for what it is, rather than for what our thoughts represent it to be, provides the theme for this compelling conversation.
The late theoretical physicist David Bohm addresses the nature of thought and thinking, and how our conditioned minds become subordinate to the way we think. During his life, Jiddu Krishnamurti was known for his ability to see the core issues of our day with a timeless vision.
With a gift for crossing the barriers of time, space, and spirit, he influenced a host of great 20th-century minds, including George Bernard Shaw, Aldous Huxley, and Henry Miller. In Truth Is a Pathless Land , Krishnamurti discusses a startling constellation of philosophical issues: love, greed, violence, separation, time, death, conflict, and fear. By: J. This internationally known physicist has developed a theory of quantum physics which addresses the totality of existence, including matter and consciousness, as an unbroken whole.
The late Bohm's concept of "implicate order" provides a basis for bridging science to the realm of spirit. For two decades he explored this possibility with J. Krishnamurti, the famed religious teacher.
One of the foremost theoretical physicists in the world, the late David Bohm, tells why science has become specialized and fragmented at the cost of its soul. He describes his theory of the implicate order and goes on to explore its implications for human consciousness.
Acknowledged as one of the greatest religious teachers of this or any other age, the late J. Krishnamurti was a visionary whose ideas are still ahead of his time. New Dimensions host Michael Toms was fortunate to capture this philosopher's penetrating wisdom in , just a few years before his death at the age of Can the mind be free? Duration: 99 minutes. The society in which we live is the result of our psychological state.
Where there is fear there is aggression. Inaction is total action. What is the machinery that builds images? Questions from the audience follow the talk. Can the brain itself see that it is caught in time and as long as it is moving in that direction conflict is eternal, endless?
Has mankind journeyed through millennia to come to this: that I am nothing and therefore I am everything and all energy? We said nothingness is everything, and so it is total energy. It is undiluted, pure, uncorrupted energy. Is there something beyond that? Why is it that theories are necessary and useful in organising facts about matter outwardly, and yet inwardly, psychologically they are in the way, of no use at all?
Seeking security for myself, for my family, for my group, for my tribe, has brought about division. The more knowledge I have acquired, as I have evolved, as I have grown, as I have experienced, it has strengthened me, and I have been walking on that path for millennia.
Perhaps I may have to look at this problem totally differently - which is not to walk on that path at all; to discard all knowledge I have acquired.
Explanations have been the boat on which to cross to the other shore. The man on the other shore says there is no boat. Unique talking style, provocative and evocative subject matter.
Worthy worthy worthy. I am different having allowed a deep truth to penetrate my mind. In this program Krishnamurti talks about topics that goes far beyond his average talks. If you have heard many of Krishnamurti talks or read some of his books and feel a little bit dissatisfied on the metaphysical perspective of his this audiobook will answer some of those questions and fill you with joy! This is a set of conversations between Jiddu Krishnamurti and David Bohm, where they both try to get to the original cause of human conflict and suffering.
These conversations provide with a lot of insight into Krishnamurti's thought, through a very interesting format where he interacts with Bohm and others. The conversations' topics progress slowly, which makes them easier to follow. You can tell also that the words they use are also very carefully chosen. There is an effort to speak in a clear and articulate manner, and that makes it quite nice to listen to. Only listened to about 90mins, conclusion: Poor them, especially JK.
Audio quality is a little difficult. I listen to it in the car while driving and can turn up the volume enough to listen.
Excellent "content" if you will. This is not only a great spiritual journey, it is also a great example of a dialog between people who really want to explore questions together with an open mind. To truly understand what is discussed in these discussions one captures the significance of no division. Bohm is difficult to listen to. He's very rigid; it makes me laugh. He's a hardware guy and he's learning software. So profound and deep. Thank you J. Just mind blowing.
These two dialogue so well together it is astounding. Get this. Worth every penny! I feel quite sorry for Krishnamurti having to speak to this guy.
Chose another talk! Poorly recorded. Poorly structured and most frustrating of all the questioner sounds like a moron who seems to have no idea what to ask next. A total waste of time and money.
The great thing about this dialogue is the continuous open questioning taking place. You can tell that JK is totally absorbed and honestly looking into the barriers that keep us locked into our conditioning.
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